: Lunch with the FT: Mariana Mazzucato: “The first time I saw Mariana Mazzucato in action…
…she intellectually eviscerated a guileless American venture capitalist at an economic conference in Italy. Anyone who has read… The Entrepreneurial State… could have probably guessed it would be a bad idea to argue within her earshot that Silicon Valley’s success was due solely to brilliant entrepreneurs doing whizzy things. But the venture capitalist was sloppy on his due diligence and was whacked by a formidable Mazzucato…. It was electrifying, especially if, as I do, you appreciate intellectual blood sports…. She chooses to meet at the Gilbert Scott restaurant in the renovated St Pancras hotel, right by the Eurostar rail terminal, close to her London home…. For the next three hours she talks at mind-spinning speed….
My mission was to change that debate. If we want to have more sustainable, long-run growth, rather than finance-driven, speculative growth, then we had better understand where growth comes from. If we actually look at the few countries that have achieved smart, innovation-led growth, you’ve had this massive government involvement. How can we square that with the whole austerity discourse?… As soon as I started looking at these issues, I started realising how much language matters. If you just talk about the state as a facilitator, as a de-risker, as an incentiviser, as a fixer of market failures, it ends up structuring what you do…. [But] you always require the state to roar….
One of the original engines of Silicon Valley’s creativity, she argues, was the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (Darpa), founded by President Dwight Eisenhower in 1958 following the alarm caused by the Soviet Union’s launch of the Sputnik rocket. Darpa, run by the US Department of Defense, has since pumped billions of dollars into cutting-edge research and was instrumental in developing the internet. According to Mazzucato, the publicly funded National Institutes of Health has played a similar role in nurturing the US pharmaceuticals industry. The Advanced Research Projects Agency-Energy (Arpa-E), set up by President Barack Obama and run by the US Department of Energy, is designed to stimulate green technology….
Mazzucato is talking so fast that she rarely has time to eat and only picks at her duck…. As we order two macchiatos, we turn to Europe, which she believes is learning all the wrong lessons from Silicon Valley’s success. Governments have rashly asked business what they should do to promote growth. Encourage venture capital, cut taxes and red tape, comes the reply. In many cases, Mazzucato argues, this amounts to no more than corporate welfare.
The irony, if not the tragedy, of what we have today is that not only do we not understand the Silicon Valley story correctly but we are also increasing the risk of free- riding, which worsens inequality. Businesses invest only where they really see future technological and market opportunities. If you bring their tax to zero, you’ve just made them richer, they will golf more. They will not invest…